Sacked former director-general of the BBC Greg Dyke told quiz master Jeremy Paxman and delegates at the CIPD’s opening keynote address that he wished HR was ‘brisker’ and braver in identifying when the rules needed to be broken.

The remarks came on the close of the first day of the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development’s (CIPD) annual conference and exhibition in which Paxman, tough-minded anchorman of Newsnight, interviewed Dyke and Sir Gerry Robinson, presenter of the TV series I’ll Show Them Who’s Boss and Can Gerry Robinson Fix the NHS. Dyke told delegates that the secret of success is ‘clarity’ and that leadership in his mind is something that can be taught.

“Fifteen to 20 per cent do it naturally [leadership] – there are the middle group that you can teach the tricks to and then there are the 15-20 per cent at the end that are beyond hope,” he explained.

“What people want,” he added “is authenticity.” Robinson said that in his view good leaders know they are able to do it. “It is often a relief for people to be relieved of a role when they know they cannot do it,” he said.

Robinson, drawing upon his experience as chairman of The Arts Council of England, said that the important thing for leaders is to get the approach right. “The way you approach things at the beginning is very important. In the public domain you can go from hero to villain in time at all. You must be very clear that what you do is right.”

Confessing he is “not a huge fan of HR”, Robinson said that one of the problems with the function as he seesit, is that “in itself [HR] has no power other than what it can do with line management.”

Whilst Dyke said that, for him, HR is important as long as you understand what it can do. “Too often managers push all the tough decisions to HR and for HR to be effective you have to have a close relationship with the management team.”

But he added: “Sometimes HR sticks too closely to the rules and there are times when you have to say ‘bugger the process’, the job of HR is to explain the risks and then let the leaders make the decisions.”

Spotting raw talent, the pair said, is one of the most important jobs of the HR function and one in which HR can add value. Robinson’s wish, he told delegates, would be at the same time to ensure the right people make it to the top. “I wish it was compulsory for senior management to make decisions based on what people do rather than say.” Too often he explained, the wrong people are promoted because they are good at selling themselves.